BEREAVEMENTUK SUPPORT FORUM

Bereavement Support Posts => Please Post In This Bereavement Support Posting Room => Topic started by: Janlmb on September 27, 2019, 08:35:39 PM

Title: Debt Collectors
Post by: Janlmb on September 27, 2019, 08:35:39 PM
My husband died on 20th August.  I let everyone know and am very shocked that the electricity company that supplies our electricity sent me an estimated bill for the amount that they think that my late husband owes them.  It arrived on 13th September they told me that had passed it on to a firm who "support bereaved families".  I looked the name of the firm up on the internet to find that they are in fact debt collectors.  Until I get probate I can't pay any of my husband's debts, not that he had many.  I know that he would be deeply hurt to think that debt collectors were chasing him.  He was an accountant and meticulous about paying all his bills on time.  Is it standard practice to pass on invoices to debt collectors as soon as the person dies?  Why were the electricity company trying to deceive me that the debt collectors are a firm who "support bereaved families".  Has anyone else had this experience?  Should I pay an estimated bill that might not be correct?  I have written to them and had a very unsatisfactory reply. I really don't need this right now.  :cry:

Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Emz2014 on September 27, 2019, 10:38:17 PM
I have heard stories of unsympathetic companies but this certainly does seem like the company is being unreasonable. Probate takes time and should be understood by companies

I dont know if anyone here has had an experience like this, I'm sure members will reply and let you know
Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Sandra61 on September 29, 2019, 06:43:16 PM
This sounds both unreasonable and extraordinarily insensitive, Jan. Of course you don't need this now. I did not find any of the firms I dealt with behaved this way. I just carried on paying the bills even though they were still in my mother's name though. All I had to do was get the name on the bill changed later on when I felt up to doing that. I suggest you put in a written complaint and point out to them how it affects their reputation to treat a recently bereaved person in this way. I think it is outrageous to pass it on to debt collectors! Probate took about eighteen months for me to get and they must know it takes time. Most companies do have a special department that deals specifically with handling the account of a deceased customer sensitively. Perhaps you can find out if this company has one and ask to speak to them. But, I would say that their response to date is certainly not on!! Don't leave it at that.
Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Karena on September 30, 2019, 10:55:43 AM
So sorry for your loss  :hug:
i had trouble with my husbands bank -they contiued to pay direct debits out of his account despite being notified and sent copies of the certificate on three occasions - My stepson ended up throwing a wobbly, taking his ashes into the branch along with yet another certificate, before they closed the account, and then they tried to get me to pay the deficit - i was told as it wasnt a joint account i was not responsible, and as there was no estate to pay it they didnt get their money - the car insurance company trippled my premium even though it was my insurance in my name for the same vehicle  - i am no longer with them and wouldnt even consider that particular bank under any circumstances.

Sadly companies can be like this in part i think because they just do what the computer says and the system dictates - the letters they send out they dont even read - neverless it adds further  heart break for those of us at the other end of them at a time we are at our most vulnerable.

Assuming you live in the same house and this has happened because you applied to transfer the bill into your name  it involves closing one account to open another -just as they would if he had moved house and a new person was moving in - therefore it really isnt a debt as such - it is for a bill he would have paid had he been able too, so try not to think of it terms of debt even if it is worded that way. I dont know how they can pass an estimated claim on to a debt collection company either, surely it has to be a specified amount and the meter reading disclosed and actual bill calculated at that time when you asked to change the account too your name so you are right this seems very strange.   

  i think the legal implication is that they need to make a claim on the estate they cant make one on you personally.

 If you have a solicitor or some-one else dealing with probate then ask them, and pass the letters on.
 If you are trying to sort it out yourself then  try citizens advice first as i am not a solicitor so could be wrong, but as far as i am aware we are not personally repsonsible for "debts" incurred by a spouse it must come from their estate.  dont be afraid to contact the "debt collection company" and inform them that you have no power to access your husbands bank account until probate has been granted - I know its really difficult to think of something your husband took pride in being on top of as being an issue now - but that company, despite their main function might actually be more helpful and supportive than the electric company, it could be they genuinely have a system by which they pass this on in order to and deal with beravement and estates seperately from the way other  causes of non payment situations are dealt with.Also point out to them this oddity of an "estimated" amount.

It is awful to have to deal with this stuff my heart goes out too you i found it helped in a peverse kind od way i guess to think of it as still fighting on behalf of my husband.
Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Janlmb on September 30, 2019, 04:27:58 PM
Thank you Karma and Sandra 61 for your replies.  I found them helpful.  I have told the electric company that I will not pay an estimated account even when probate is granted.  I will pay a reasonable account based on readings.  I think that these firms do this because their only interest is in making sure they get their money.  I am in the process of changing suppliers, so their behaviour has lost them a customer.  I still think this is an appalling way to treat the bereaved.  Another thing that really got to me was their attempt to deceive me into thinking that they were not debt collectors.  I am sorry to hear of your problems with closing the bank account.  I think sometimes the inefficiency of staff can hardly be believed. It is really bad when people are grieving.  Thank again for your replies.  After probate is granted the electricity company may be the last to be paid!
Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Karena on October 01, 2019, 10:53:04 AM
It is so hard to have to fight when you are at your lowest ebb -well done for standing up too them. :hug:
Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Janlmb on October 01, 2019, 04:38:46 PM







The electricity company telephoned me today and tried to make out that I had misunderstood their "good" intentions.  They pass the bills on because these people are specialists in bereavement services and have solicitors who can help.  Their website says that although they offer bereavement services it is in the nature of things like coming to an agreement if there is no money in the estate to cover debts.  Unbelievable!  I think they hope that most people are too ignorant or too full of grief to challenge them.  They will send me a more accurate bill rather than an estimated one.  I warned her that it will not be paid until probate is granted.  Do all companies behave like this? Apparently her manager will give me a call.  Now there's something to look forward to  :rofl:


















Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Sandra61 on October 02, 2019, 11:09:17 AM
No. Not all companies are like this. I think you've just been unfortunate, Jan. I found that all the companies I have dealt with have at least been kind and sympathetic - with the glaring exception of HMRC!! - and have dealt very kindly and patiently with me. Good for you for standing up for your rights and getting them to back down a bit! Keep at it! I am sure you are right and they were just hoping you would be too upset to fight back! They shouldn't get away with it, because it won't just be you they are treating like this and they should review their attitude to the bereaved. It is hard enough to cope when you have lost someone without the added upset of such poor treatment from a utility company.  :hearts:
Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Janlmb on October 03, 2019, 07:38:01 AM
Sandra61 you have hit the nail on the head.  Of course I was upset and dismayed by their action.  But what about others who just can't cope at this time.  Do they or the memory of their loved ones need further aggravation and to be humiliated?  I had a phone call from someone who was very definite that I was at fault for not appreciating and acknowledging their good intentions in trying to help me at this time by doing this.  Eventually she had to admit that they are debt collectors.  However she assured me that if there is insufficient money in the estate to meet their bill this company will help me to come to an agreement whereby the debt of just over £200 can be paid off in instalments.  I pointed out that I do not have that obligation.  Their deceit is incredible.  They are also trying to thwart my efforts to change suppliers.  Thank you for your response








Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Karena on October 03, 2019, 11:00:06 AM
 :hug:they are awful but if there is any way of putting a pollyanna perspective on this it is that you will look back when youre at your lowest points on this grim rollercoaster journey and draw strength from knowing that you can fight the things that get thrown at you by those who have no heart.
Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Sandra61 on October 03, 2019, 09:08:50 PM
Definitely a strong complaint letter needed, Jan. I am sure your husband would be furious too! You might include a threat to go to Watchdog about them or some kind of consumer programme. Also if you talk to the Citizen's Advice Bureau, they now handle what used to be trading standards, and I am sure they would be able to advise you what to say and how to combat this awful company! Give it a try. They should not get away with treating you like this. More power to your elbow, Jan!
Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Janlmb on October 04, 2019, 02:34:46 PM
Well I could take the Pollyanna stance but if I do they will continue to think that their behaviour is acceptable and do it to others who may be intimidated by it.  I got a letter today from the debt collection company addressed to my husband.  Here again it can be very stressful for the bereaved to receive a letter addressed to the deceased.  They said he should telephone them so that he could pay or come to an agreement about how the bill could be paid. The electricity company tell me that the debt collectors are trained by the Samaritans to deal effectively with the bereaved.  I asked the person when I telephoned and she said she could not see why whether or not she had been trained by the Samaritans had any relevance to paying the bill.  I told her that they will get the correct amount of money when I get probate.  She said that was fine because they don't add charges to these sorts of accounts ie when the person has died.  Thank you Sandra61 I am considering my next steps.  At least HMRC have been fine with me and sent me a cheque for the tax that he had overpaid.  Sorry you did not have a good experience with them Sandra61.
All I want is for companies to treat the bereaved with kindness and consideration.  I don't think that is an unreasonable idea.  Maybe I am making too much of it but I am on my own and don't have others to ask so this forum is helpful.  I'll shut up now.
Title: R
Post by: GHOST on October 04, 2019, 11:29:30 PM
I
Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Janlmb on October 06, 2019, 08:21:23 AM
The tough time that you have had Brian makes my problem so insignificant.  I am so sorry that you have been treated in this way.  The electricity company have verbally told me that they are going to review their procedures.  (Doubt that they will.)  On the plus side the estimated bill was reduced from £234 to £90.  I think that they have probably been ripping us off for years.  Thank you for the heads up about insurance.  I spoke to the debt collectors and they have said that they won't be adding charges to the account while I wait for probate to be granted.  Isn't that kind of them? LOL It is probably illegal for them to do so or I am sure they would. The person i spoke to was quite offhand and rather aggressive.  I asked her why their letter was addressed to my late husband and she said well it is just a debt to us but we now won't add charges.  Astonishing behaviour.  The electricity company told me that the debt collectors are trained by the Samaritans.  I asked her if this was so and she said yes.  I asked her how much training she had received and she more or less told me to mind my own business and said it was irrelevant to the debt that is owed. 
I do hope that you can get some of your money back, would be best if it was all of it.  This experience has opened my eyes and I would like so much to be able to reduce this stress for other people.  Take care Brian and I hope you get a good result soon.
Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Sandra61 on October 06, 2019, 10:55:30 AM
Good for you, Jan, for getting the amount reduced so much and for fighting your corner with the debt collectors. I would probably ask them to confirm in writing that they will not be adding any charges and will wait for the probate to come through before you have to pay, as they don't always do what they say in a phone call in my experience. Always best to make them write it down, then they can't deny they ever said it!

Brian, your story sounds horrendous! Have you written to the manager or to head office to complain to the companies who keep badgering you? I bet if you wrote a letter to the papers or to Watchdog about it, they would put an end to bothering you! They hate bad publicity! As for Santander, you should keep on fighting them for your money. My mum had an account with them also, and all I had to do was take them a copy of the death certificate to get it and they gave me a cheque while I was there. If yours was a joint account, surely if you go back with a death certificate and proof of your own identity, that should be enough? People often forget passwords also and there is usually an option to send them a message to say you have  forgotten it and they email you a request to change your password. Have you tried that. They must not be allowed to get away with fobbing you off like this and keeping your money! You must keep going back to them and arguing until you get it! Write to their UK head office if you have to. They probably have one, but it's your money, not theirs, so keep on until they give it to you.

Thanks so much for the insurance tips. I have tried it in the past, but without much success. You must have the knack!  I will try again!

Sending you both a big hug! keep going!  :hug: :hug:
Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Dawnee on October 13, 2019, 12:10:33 PM
I think under the circumstances you should have had time especially if you are in probate. They are not being fair, let them wait.
Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Janlmb on October 13, 2019, 11:10:53 PM
Thank you for your reply Dawnee.  They will have to wait until probate is granted. I understand that legally that is the case.
Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Janlmb on October 17, 2019, 09:57:46 PM
The electricity company have assured me that they are reviewing their procedures when dealing with the bereaved.  I hope that they will because I think that I would not like them to continue to hand deceased people's accounts to debt collectors immediately after they die and harass their relatives. Not sure that I believe them but at least I have made them uncomfortable and made them consider what they are doing.
Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Karena on November 07, 2019, 01:14:16 PM
legally as a spouse you are not personally liable provided your name wasnt on the agreement as for example with a joint bank account -or failure to pay a direct debit or bill which your name is on -  but the estate of the person who died  is liable , so when the estate is sorted out, the outstanding amount is taken out before the person who inherits it receives the rest.
If for example you are the person applying for probate and also the beneficiary  the same still applys, although you may  choose too pay if its a small amount and you want to clear it up, you cant be forced to pay it out of your personal assetts, they have to apply for payment from the estate  for the money to come out of the estate.

If there is no estate they cant then demand  the spouse (or other next of kin to pay at all)  except in certain circumstances
-  they might be able to demand half an outstanding amount if it was a joint account or a shared agreement that you were paying out too  with both names on it, as the legal assumption would be that you were paying half so you were jointly liable for the payment, and that is the case even if the whole payment was coming directly from the personal account of the person who died, the other person on the agreement would still be liable for half.

So what should have happened was that the meters should have been read and the account with the electricity company closed with an invoice  for any outstanding amounts submitted to the estate administrator to be paid from the estate - then a new account from the day of that meter reading being opened starting from the meter reading of that day - just as if some-one moved house - they wouldnt  charge the new resident (new account holder)  for the old residents past account holders) outstanding bill.
Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Janlmb on November 08, 2019, 11:43:29 AM
What I objected to was their deceit in pretending that the debt collectors were there to help me.  I only found out that they were debt collectors when I looked them up on the internet.  I appreciate that a company much make an effort to get what is owed but I think that an honest explanation would have caused less trauma.  The debt collectors sent me a letter addressed to my late husband which again could have so easily caused upset.  When I contacted them they were rather offhand and quite aggressive.  They did say that in this instance they would not add additional fees.  I really did not appreciate this incident.  The electricity company have said that they will examine their procedures.  I felt that I did not want anyone else to have the same experience.  Don't know if it will make any difference.  I have switched electricity providers and will pay the outstanding bill when probate is granted.  The electricity company are the only company that have not been considerate in their approach.
Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Karena on November 11, 2019, 10:49:09 AM
Potentially the debt collection company sold the idea they were considerate of bereavement issues too the electricity company  when they tendered the contract - everything is so confused now - too many middle men - had this when they wanted to switch card meters at the old house - we had a card which the post offfice topped up and you paid cash to the post office - then they wrote and said they were switching to a new digital card and were coming to change the meter - except the little local post office didnt have the machine to read the new things - in fact the nearest place that did was 30 miles away - so thats a 60 mile round trip weekly to top up the electric - bearing in mind in the winter of 2009/10 we were snowed in for 7 weeks and had to walk to get out and 7 weeks with no electric in winter would not have been jolly there was no other form of heating except a coal fite we couldnt get coal for because they couldnt bring it in - and i certainly couldnt hoist it home. So i rang and asked them not too they said to ring the meter company they said to ring anotherc company because they were contracted to do this by this other company whose sole prupose appered to be to act as middlemen between the electric company and th meter company no doubt all creaming a bit off along the way  -It went on for a couple of years  every month - we,re coming to change the meter every month ringing round to stop them until eventually the post office got the machine installed to read them. :angry: why does life have to be so compilated now. At the moment my electric company ( not the same one) want to install a smart meter - and where on the one hand it would be interesting to know what uses most ( although i have a pretty good ide anyway ) on the other how much of a farce will it be this time round.
Title: Re: Debt Collectors
Post by: Jill on November 11, 2019, 12:30:37 PM
I SO agree 'Why does everything have to be so complicated now?'  Couldn't have put it better myself!!