Author Topic: Its been a very hard day, I need to believe that there is a spiritual afterlife  (Read 2577 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Marinada

  • New Members
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
Hello, I had posted on the introduction forum for the last couple of days.  I have been reading lots of messages this afternoon.  However desperately grief stricken I feel at the moment, knowing and reading other people's messages makes me feel my grief isnt some madness that people are expecting me to get over at some point in the near future.

Les died on Sunday, today, three days later which seem eternal I went to the hospital to say my last goodbye and collect his certificate of cause of death.  I was allowed 20 minutes, the lady said very gently.  The shock of how cold he was sent me into a spiral of despair.  He hated being cold, he had a lot of health issues over the past decade, fibromyalgia, chronic pain after being left in a wheelchair following a fall five years ago.  Cold used to make him feel worse, so I would wrap him up in blankets and cuddle with him.  And today there he was, lying asleep, lines still coming out of his neck, bruises on his arms from the multiple lines he'd had placed and removed over the past 10 weeks.  I held his hand, kissed it, leant in next to him and stroked his head, trying to give him some warmth.  I sobbed until my lungs hurt.  I had this stupid irrational, selfish thought flash through my mind.  I felt envious of his first wife.  She had him next to her now, not me.  Les had the rare experience that not a lot of people enjoy.  He has been loved, wholeheartedly and unconditionally by two women in his life.  And my thought was stupid, because I often talked about her, that she would like what he'd done in the garden, or if he mentioned her, to me it wasn't a threat at all.  She was part of his life, she was part of his journey towards me.  But today, I felt envious of her.  How stupid.  All day today, I've been thinking, what will happen when i see him again?  Will he remember me?  That is what i asked him as i sobbed and kissed him, please don't forget me, please don't forget me.

And then I told him that it was ok.  That he and I were going to walk out of there together.  That we would leave his physical body behind and his spirit would hold my hand and we would walk out of that damned hospital together.  No more tests, no more lines, no more pain, no more delirium.  Just walk out, and we would never set foot in that bloody place again (excuse my language, sorry). And that finally, he was going to be moving in with me.

I put his music on in the car as loud as I could and went to my next stop the registry office.  I don't remember going in or what happened. i just went into the building shutting my heart out because it was the only way to cope with it.  The paperwork is still in the car, i just don't want and can't look at it. 

When we met, Les was living in a council flat, I had a teenager still at home.   So we didn't move in together.  My children and I had survived domestic abuse many years before and my son just wasn't ready to have another man in his life.  As my son became a young adult I spent more and more time and overnights with Les, either at his house or mine, now that my son had come to appreciate Les and learn that not all men are bad.  They got along so well.  Les had his accident five years ago and after spinal surgery which still left him in a wheelchair, moved into a council bungalow.  Now the practicalities of moving into my house with a wheelchair was an impossible dream for Les.  The point of all this is that now that Les is no longer there, and his was the only name on the tenancy, today I have had to start packing the bungalow.  Our haven, our home, the place where I stayed almost every night.  The place i came to after work and felt like home.  Where he cooked meals on Tuesdays and where most of my clothes were.  But now I have three weeks to empty out the bungalow and hand in the keys. 
Today, I went to say goodbye to his physical presence, picked up the paperwork i never wanted to.  I had walked out of the hospital with his spirit, told him he was finally moving in with me, no wheelchair, no problems going up the stairs.  Now in this bungalow full of half filled boxes and half emptied drawers and wardrobes, I couldn't feel him at all.  I told myself it was ok, once I have his things around me Les will feel next to me.  But it felt as if i was lying to myself, was his spirit really with me?  What nonsense people would say.  This battle in my head, pulling me from one side to the other.  Yes, his spirit is with me.  No, it isn't real, just my wishful thinking.  I need to believe he is with me. 

A couple of hours ago, I talked to him, Les, would you like to help me unpack the car, and you can help me settle in?  It felt good to say it.  It felt comforting.  Then I had a phone call from our mutual friend, the only other person in Les' life.  Are you sure you want to take everything?  Why don't you take it to a charity shop?  I wanted to scream.  But I calmly told her i needed his things with me.  i want his things with me.  Where are you going to put it all? she replied.  I'll find space.  As my son told me yesterday, don't worry mum.  if we have to rearrange the whole house, we will.  And that is the only validation I need.  From this young man who when he first met Les was so suspicious of him and who allowed Les to slowly come into his life and help him learn to trust again.

its getting dark, I had better go and start unpacking the car.  Ready for another car load tomorrow.
Just want to say thank you to everyone here.  Just writing this post makes me feel less lonely in the sense that I can talk to people who fully understand. 

The hardest thing is not feeling his hand on mine, his arm around me.  Not laughing together, not watching our favourite TV shows together.  Not being able to ask for his advice on anything, not being able to comfort him.  Not sighing with a hint of amusement when he announced he was getting yet another coffee machine because it had coffee pod flavours the other coffee machine didn't have.  Not quietly and to myself thinking that actually this new coffee machine does have very nice coffee while trying to fit everything else around it in the kitchen so that Les be able to enjoy it without a struggle.  Not looking into his eyes and thinking how lucky I am.  Life is unbearable.  But thank you for being there.  Thank you.   :hearts:

Offline Marinada

  • New Members
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
Is it normal to be so angry at other people? Angry envy. Total strangers, walking along with their loved ones. People who have been together for decades. I'm not an angry person but I just want them to go away. I don't want to use my energy in being angry at people who I'm sure are lovely. I'm just angry at life, at the cruelty of it all. Life seems like such a harsh place to be in. I just have to think about the beauty that Les taught me to see, but right now I want to scream. I want the world to stop. I want to go to sleep and not wake up so that I don't have to live through that split second where the realisation of Les not being next to me engulfs me in darkness.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2019, 09:02:36 AM by Marinada »

Offline Emz2014

  • Administrator
  • VIP Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1904
  • Karma: +130/-0
Anger is a normal response in grief, we suddenly become hyper aware of the circumstances others have which we have lost. It's a hard part of the journey, it will ease.  I think it reflects the rawness of the early stages

And with regards to belongings, you do what feels right to you now. There's time and you can review/revisit belongings when you're feeling stronger.  It has taken me a long time to go through that journey, separating my loved one from the items and finding those that had special meaning to keep. You choose the timing right for you. Thats wonderful support from your son

Sending you a hug   :hug:
Even the darkest night will end and the sun will rise. 
Hold on in there xx

Offline Sandra61

  • Administrator
  • VIP Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 579
  • Karma: +62/-0
Oh Marinada, your post takes me right back to the day I lost my mum and how I felt then. I wasn't present when she died. She passed away shortly after I had gone home for a rest and was gone when I arrived back at the hospital. Her body was still warm and although I could see she was gone, she looked as if she were still breathing. I waited for about four hours with her whilst my brother came up from work.

Like you, I never wanted to go back into that hospital again. I try not to drive past it anymore, even now. It represents six weeks of hell for my mum and of helplessness and desperation and misery for me. I cried more than I have ever done and kept crying for months after she died. The doctors seemed to be filled with pessimism and did not keep me informed properly. I felt myself and my brother had to try to fight for her all the time she was in there, because we could see signs of improvement from the stroke she had had that resulted in her being there and eventually, she died of an unrelated problem related to her existing heart condition. She needed to take blood thinners to enable her heart to function, but they took her off this after her stroke. She didn't stand a chance after that really. She had been getting better from the stroke, but her heart could not cope.

The hospital had no opening windows and it broke my heart that she had to be there, as she always slept with the window open at home and craved fresh air all her life. She got none during those last six weeks. Then there was the environment. Too noisy to sleep; not enough staff; kind nurses, but too few of them; not so nice healthcare assistants who did not always feed her (she could not feed herself) and she always loved her food. They made her eat pureed food and I had to try to be there at meal times to help her as otherwise it was unlikely anyone else would. I took her soup and coffee from home, which she did at least enjoy. The last thing she ever ate was a small piece of lemon meringue pie that I brought her from home. She did enjoy that! They did at least move her to a room on her own near the end and I was grateful for that. She did at least get a little peace there, but still no fresh air and I had to stay with her all night, because I did not trust them to check on her. They seemed to stop after they decided she was dying. Oh my...it was such a horrible time.

Yesterday, September 5th, was the second anniversary of the start of that six week nightmare and like most of my close relatives, she passed away on October 9th, within days of the anniversaries of her own mother's and my father's deaths. It's a really hard time of year for me.

I think, it's hard to explain, because it is speculation, but the feeling I have got when I have lost close relatives is that perhaps it takes a little while for the person's spirit to adjust to the change. I did not feel any presence of their spirits for a week or two after they passed, but then began to experience little things that indicated they were still around for a few more weeks. My dad was definitely around for a while after he passed away and I think my mum was too. It was just little things I noticed, scents I associated with them that were suddenly there, things that I needed suddenly turning up when I had been looking for them, feathers appearing out of nowhere. But then also there were the farewell dreams I had that were very vivid, but indicated to me that they were saying goodbye and moving on to the next phase of existence. I do think they turn up now and again still, usually when I have some kind of crisis, but I'm don't have the impression they are necessarily around all the time. I think they are ok, and I still talk to them all the time, most days anyway. Oddly, I have a portrait of my dad that I never liked very much when he was alive as he had rather a severe expression in it, but since he died, he looks now like he is smiling in it and looking at me. My brother has noticed it too. I do somehow feel a link to his spirit now through that picture and find it a comfort to have it now.

Of course you feel angry and feel like you don't want to face the day. That's normal. The days do gradually get easier to face, but I found it got worse before it got better. It is easier now, but I think that comes from acceptance and as shock subsides. I remember I wrote a poem about how time goes peculiar after a loss. I did put it on here somewhere. It does feel like the world should stop and you wonder how it is that everything goes on as normal around you and that feels wrong. Again, you have to accept that that's how it is and try to build a new life and start to engage with life again. It takes time and effort.

I am sorry you are having the added stress of having to leave the bungalow, but it is normal to want to keep Les' things with you. I still cannot face getting rid of my mum's things. I have managed to part with a few things she rarely used or wore, but many, I can still picture her in and I cannot yet let them go. My brother wanted to help me pack them all up for the charity shop, but I couldn't do it and still haven't been able to almost two years on. I think many people just keep them forever. That's normal too. They are a link to the person you have lost, not just things. They hold memories and feelings for those left behind.

I am glad your son is being so supportive and that you have eachother at this terrible time. It sounds to me as if you are doing very well and going through what so many of us do after losing someone so close. You should bring the paper work in from the car though. You will find you need that to be able to wind up all his affairs. You need it for the bank and the will, if there is one, even for the utilities providers. It is best to keep it safe.

It will take time, Marinada and I am glad it is helping you to write here. You are right, we do understand and have been where you are now. It does get better, but you do have to work at that. Just do whatever helps and allow yourself to feel those feelings, be they anger or misery. You need to express them and writing and talking do help.

We are here for you with an understanding heart, for as long as you need us.  :hearts:

Offline Karena

  • Administrator
  • VIP Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2132
  • Karma: +145/-0
 :hug:
It such early days for you and you will find your own path and your own belief over time - i have had longer to think about it and the following is my belief but i would not at any time claim authority in it - the only truth is none of us knows for sure.

keith and i were both already widowed when we met - in fact it was that which drew us together as our youngest  daughters were at school together and were drawn togther through the shared experience - we were friends for years  because of that too - there are some things girls cant talk about with their dads no matter how liberal he is and mine needed a bolt hole too.  We shared school things with chairs lined up in twos - when you had to sit there on your own - school concerts where you wanted to support them but - for me walkng into a space filled with people - almost always couples (my mum had died as well so it was just me)  was a major thing for me as i have social anxiety issues anyway  - so we went to those things together and too a degree parented together, although we both never tried to replace the missing parent.When it changed from friendship to something much deeper we both also knew that there would always be a part of of us that still loved the one we had lost but that was fine too - and like you i never had any jealousy about his wife - until he died.

This too will pass -although sometimes it still hurts occasionally.
The first time i felt it, his daughter posted a valentines thing on fb about them being back together, and a lot of her friends and relations repeated the whole mantra they were a match made in heaven etc etc - it was as if for them i hadnt existed he never married me -and it hurt me very deeply. 
This last week - his daughter got married on saturday and her husband as a suprise present has got both her parets wedding rings (too each other, the ones we had are both on my finger)  but again anounced it on fb  - except this time i was at the wedding two days earlier -people spoke to me -i got new friend requests from two of them, so i knew there was no bad intent whatsoever - but to be honest it still hurt when i saw it, only this time  it was more fleeting and without the paranoia.
Of course she wants to think of her parents being together in eternity -who wouldnt want that - but i cant let that take anything away from me -I met his wife when she was alive - she was on the same cancer ward as Mark - she was the first person who put her arms round me when he had just died,  she was a nice person or he wouldnt have loved her - she and i would have got on well together as friends in this life.
He didnt want to leave me, but if there is still consciousness they lose us too and maybe go through the same emotions we do  -she would have put her arms round him to comfort him, but that doesnt mean they are a complete entity and there is no place for me in that circle.

I do think there is something after this life and i think why would we all not get on together in another life - i dont believe we necessarilly  carry those jealousys we have in this life into the next because those are emotions created from instincts  partly the survival instincts. In the animal world a male fights over his herd - females compete for his attention and will kill other females that threaten her children or her position with the male - thats how survival of the species works and humans are not so remote from that as we like to think - but without our physical bodies we will be free from those instincts - we will be spirits or souls who are attracted because of something very different than physical appearance - so  maybe her and keith and Mark will be hanging out together because they have the same connections in this world but are also the same kind of souls.When we say someone was our soul mate it doesnt necessrilly have to be exclusive.

If we are free from this body and free to move around then we are free to be with some-one at a time of need whether they are in this life or the next, time and distance is not the same outside the human concept.Is Keith looking over my shoulder at work - i used to think so in the early days i dont now -but i dont need him to be, and he wouldnt have been doing that in this life  - but i think he will be with me when i go back to Wales next week because thats what he loved to do  - i think he has always been and always will be with me when i do need him to be.

A strange dream like encounter with an owl and another when i was watching a dolphin lead me to look into the idea of Anmal spirit guides - we went to watch dolphins when we were in wales he adopted one for me which is the one i saw - we rescued an owl and he had an affinity with them -so it made sense to look into it - the beleif is we have Animal spriti guides but that also they change when we need something different and work together to guide us.

Mark was a joiner maybe he is the one who puts the right tool for a job in my hand,Keith was a mechanic maybe he is the one who helps me find what is wrong with a vehicle  -then he was a teacher and i am about to take in a 15 year old with failed mock gcse,s -  i have never been a teacher yet still feel i can help because Keith was and my mum was, and i have every faith they will guide me.(dont worry i will be using human generated GCSE guides as well)

I looked at pagan beliefs and found the two trees we were assoiciated with by our birthdays were standing together at the bottom of my garden.
I dont have one belief in one system of beliefs but dont believe any are wrong - i also think quantum physics has an interesting part to play - as does the natural world -under biology - a leaf falls from a tree it appears to die, yet it continues to nourish that tree and the eco system underneath it - so its not about a tradition or religion for me or the rules it has imposed on itself,  but about the interconnectedness of everything around us including that which we cant see.
I also had to move house but i dont think we leave them behind a house is just a building and again they are no longer bound by a physical body to be with us anywhere we end up.
I think we also look for signs so hard we dont see them - there are the ones people speak a lot about feathers,butterflys etc or feeling a presence. The wedding was 1950,s rockn roll themed - she made the flowers from newspapers and magazine - my daughter and a couple of others made a lot of them up  as well so it was a joint effort . Her older sister Sally was maid of honor -during the service i was looking for signs he was there and saw nothing - Afterwards Sally showed me her bouguet - somewhere along the way of creating them rolling the paper and making the flowers into a bouquet -hers over several flowers has a trail of letters that spelled out - "sometimes when we touch" -  its a song he loved - but he always said it had more meaning than was obvious and i never quite knew what he meant by that despite reading the lyrics through more than once after he died - but it wasnt something i had even thought about recently - i dont see how it could possibly have been done on purpose or any reason to do it -but sometimes we learn just to accept that something that could be dismiised as co-incidence isnt always, and start to see things that are meant for us too.

Anger -yes also Normal - anger with ourselves which turns to guilt - the questions what if i said that or did that differently - Anger with the person who died even thoguh we know it wasnt their fault, and anger with other people - Sometimes just because they look happy together sometime they say or do something innocent that triggers absolute rage in us  -

The first day i went back to work my boss was talking about arguing with his wife over the colour of new kitchen units - i wanted to scream at him -your wife is still alive kitchen units are not important - i didnt but i came close too it. I had a spot behind the shed i spent a lot of time retiring too in those early days back at work.
 A few months later i was in a charity shop and two old ladies were chatting -one had left her husband at home because he only got in the way when it came to shopping - he was a "blooming nusisance". Again i left quickly - and of course people dont mean to be cruel the two old ladies could have had no  idea what they had said  they didnt know me - and it was actually something i might have said my self to a female friend when he was alive.
In the same way your friend could not have had any idea what she was saying about his stuff - i think people want to help but dont know how they dont know what to say so say the wrong thing or nothing at all , which can actually be worse,  and look for a practical way  - sometimes that way can be born of ignorance - they havnt been there themselves, they see others do that with loved ones stuff - but that absolutely doesnt mean they dont care .
Your son sounds lovely and Emz is right only you will know if or when you feel able to sort through it - and sometimes in my experience what becomes valuable to you later on isnt the same things you feel are now, so take your time it doeant matter how long that is.

Those memorys of things like the coffee machine incident will be the ones which make you smile and sometimes the ones that make you cry as well when they come to you unexpetedly  - those little things are as important if not more so as the big ones - they are what your lives together were about and will be the ones you come to cherish.  :hug: 
   

Offline Marinada

  • New Members
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Karma: +0/-0
Hello emz, Sandra and Karen. Just to let you know that your replies made the pain a little more bearable, just to know that someone understands. Thankyou

Offline Emz2014

  • Administrator
  • VIP Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1904
  • Karma: +130/-0
Bereavement is a very lonely journey, even when you're surrounded by people - it really helped me to know we're not alone on this journey.  Even knowing I was not the only person sat awake at 2am unable to sleep helped so much!
Post whenever you need  :hearts:
Even the darkest night will end and the sun will rise. 
Hold on in there xx