Suicide and ways to find peace from the guilt left behind

[Penelope]

I don’t know how often this subject has cropped up, but for me it’s a subject I have found a lot of people just are too uncomfortable to talk about it. I have lost three people to suicide and each time I have been left doubting myself as a person. Has anyone else ever lost a number of times this way? If so, do you have any advice as to how to find some peace in yourself. My father was one of those people who chose to leave this way. He also lost his best friend to suicide when I was around 5 years old. My own best friend took her life when I was 15, just days before my 16th birthday. She had rehearsed it on me weeks before. I remember my dad being so upset for me, and for my friend. When he died doing the same thing I suddenly felt angry at him. After which I felt ultimately guilty for doing so. I find this kind of loss brings with it a cocktail of emotions and questions that can never be answered. At 25 I began punishing myself, forcing myself to be sick. I felt unworthy to breathe and a let down to the people I loved the most. I don’t do that anymore, but I still struggle to find self worth in myself. I get a lot of reward from being a mum and I am determined to not allow myself to fall completely. I want to be the best for my child. I want them to look back at healthy and happy memories. Even though his daddy died not long after he was born. I don’t want the past to dictate their future or mine. But I can’t ignore it either. And it washes over me in waves. Any advice to help find some peace in my mind would be truly helpful.

Many thanks for reading

[Emz2014]

Sending you a welcome hug 

I have lost someone to suicide, it certainly brings complex feelings. It may help you to consider some counselling, to give you a chance to work through your thoughts and feelings, and to learn techniques to help build your feeling of self worth     grief often brings feelings of guilt, but we all do what we can with the knowledge & ability we have at the time, we all do our best as humans, and often there are no or very little indication that someone is feeling suicidal

You may find it also helps writing here, everyone here has lost loved ones, no experts here but people sharing their experiences and in doing so helping each other. 

It takes alot to survive all the things you have been through, courage and strength, sometimes slowing down and noting down all the things you've coped with and got through can help you to realise your achievements and go towards building your self worth.

[Penelope]

Thanks so much for the warm welcome and thoughtful reply. I am so sorry you have also lost to this. Sadly I have seen three counsellors in my time. The last was the better one of the three, but still they didn’t really know what other advice they could give me. I saw a hypnotherapist to see if they could help with insomnia and anxiety. Which has helped for some part. I think what you said about listing things to show myself how far I have come is a really good idea. We don’t tend to give ourselves enough credit. I know I beat myself up about things a lot. So I am definitely going to give that ago. And yes talking with people who have experienced similar loss should help too. Just knowing others understand is in itself a relief. Even though I wish none of us were in this position. I think this time round, after my fiancé died suddenly and I found him, a year latter my friend took her life. I just felt so done with dealing with shock and loss. I remember saying I can’t do this anymore. I can’t take it. But we do take it and we get on with it, because time moves forward and so must we. Sometimes I get so overwhelmed I just burst into tears and sob for a while. I think I am exhausted from all the grief. I dread anymore shocks, so I don’t answer my phone, and I don’t socialise because getting too close to people actually scares me. Losing people all the time causes you to build defences and push good people away. I wish I could live more freely within my own self. To be more daring. But I have lost confidence in myself and life I guess. Hopefully maybe as I am on here that will get better

Hugs back and thank you for helping

[Emz2014]

It can help too to start writing down 3 things which you have acheived each day or are grateful for, or made you smile.  Can be very small things, but that can help with our sense of achievement too.  I still do that now at the end of each day as it certainly helped me 

[Penelope]

Thanks so much for being so supportive  I will most definitely do that each day. I wrote some things today regarding how far I have come since all this happened. You don’t notice most things, not till you really think on it. I tend to reflect back on the negatives. This felt good today. So I must give you a big thanks for helping me notice more of a positive side to myself. I need to do some more self care. Pick myself back up and hopefully gain some confidence again. I always feel I am awkward and difficult to warm to. I am so guarded I guess. All the best to you and thank you for showing kindness to me, I will keep working on my list each day

[Karena]

Hi Penelope
I also lost a close friend and colleague to suicide. He had tried before several times all his friends were on a kind of unofficial suicide watch - he was even posting on a suicide website  so we knew he was getting ready for another attempt but there was nothing we could say or do to stop it - he had had access to mental health care  the police were also aware that it was esculating again --but he knew what we were doing even though we tried not to make it obvious so he went o great lengths to evade us and them he went to the railway station and bought tickets to Wales, i was on my way there anyway so diverted and went to meet the train but as it turned out he hadnt got on it - he had set everything up to divert us and the police then walked into some fields behind his house - he had even  timed an e-mail to the police telling them where his body could be found - because he didnt want his friends or a dog walker or a child to be traumatised by finding him.

There was anger in this case that he became so deceiptful as well because that wasnt in his personality at all -but anger is not an unreasonable response many of us here have felt that when a loved one has died in any circumstances not just suicide - anger that they left us - anger that they did something that caused it whether it was their life style - or that they were driving somewhere at that time or doing something dangerous - whatever they did to create the situation -we feel anger at others too that they caused an accident or didnt do enough to help some-one - didnt find that cancer cure in time - and anger at ourselves -and i think maybe those of us who are less confident focus on that - we cannot express that anger so we turn it in on ourselves, and that then becomes anxiety and depression -we feel it must be us that has failed so that translates into - therefore  we are a failure - no amount of logic gets in the way of that at the time
 - and of course that is also mixed with guilt -what we should have said or done, that we didnt do enough -that we failed them and in this case - did we do too much did we give our concerns away and  drive him into that deceipt - and if we hadnt done that would he have been more likely to be found and saved -Its not reasoned anger or guilt we just dont know the answer  but it is a part of grief to ask the question over and over again..

In the end i think when some-one has decided to end their life it isnt about us at all, but about them - and when they have made that decision it isnt because we are not good enough or not loved enough, but an overwhelming feeling for them and a neurlogical reaction that we just cant reach through.

 Paul just didnt want to be here any more - he had  arranged and paid for his own funeral - written down what he would wear in the coffin and the songs to be played where his money was to go this wasnt a decision made in a single moment of despair and in some ways despite the anger and the guilt and the pain of grief -  i also felt i should accept his choice and i so wish it wasnt the case that he made it and that he had been able to resolve the issues that lead too it, but those issues were not created by those of us who tried to help him - we failed to do that, but so did the professionals and i dont see what else could have done, i think maybe he appreciated that we loved him and we tried and i cant ask for more than that.

This is the second time i have been widowed and when i was much younger my boyfriend died in a car crash - shortly after this last time i was talking too a lady who had also lost two husbands and she said we must have done something in a previous life to get punished like this - and that was the kind of thoughts i had myself, but when my mouth opened what came out was different  - maybe if there is some kind of pre- ordained path - fate or whatever you call it,  we were rewarded by being the person privalaged to have been with them at the end of their lives - maybe we were chosen because we are strong enough to cope -or maybe we proved in this life that we were able to care for one and so chosen to care for the other  -i dont know where that thought came from but i have tried to keep hold of it.

I know what you mean about staying remote from others i even tried to distance my heart from my own adult children after this last time but thats not really possible to do as being a parent yourself you will know.
 I think perhaps i do remain more cautious - more guarded about anyone else getting in but maybe thats just what it tell myself  because my social anxiety is mixed up in there as well -

I have learned how to get over that to a level - but to chose the dragons i need to slay - do i want to eat in a cafe on my own - no - do i want to join the WI or amateur dramatics ( the only local offerings ) no  -so why try and do that - but do i want to travel somewhere - yes - do i want to take my grandson to a college open evening tomorow yes -so how can i cope with that how can i plan it what props can i put in place  (you will be suprised how brave you become as your little one has more social needs)   

 I think writing a list of all you have achieved is a really good idea and keep it, so in the darkest times you can remind yourself that you are capable and strong - you will create those happy memories for your little one -but i dont think we can ever cut off the past so rather than trying to forget we need to focus on the the past in a different way, get away from the memorys of them dying and how they died -and towards the memorys of how they lived and the good things they brought into your life while they lived.
As he grows your little one will ask questions about his dad -but they and the answers will be about him as a person the things that made him special -maybe the same for his grandad -and in thinking about them in that way and talking about them in that way, you can also help yourself remember them not just as people you lost from your life, but people who were an integral part of it -and still can be just in a different way to how they were before - because they are in our hearts and minds forever.

It doesnt mean there wont be times when you dont feel grief -as well but you will be more able to cope with it. I found myself crying over my mum 10 years after she died triggered because of xmas song that came on the radio - not the usual ones but one she was trying to learn on the piano for her school nativity when i was a kid  - but as well as tears i  remembered her as the dedicated teacher who put so much time into her job - the woman who was the first in our familly not to be working in the mills because she always put so much effort in -the first to go into post school education.The way she would play the thing over and over again until she got it right - even how at the time it was annoying to listen too but that was part of my life as well what teenager doesnt find a parent annoying - so that annoyance also became something to now smile about, like the things they said that you swore you never would, so annoying at the time then you repeat it yourself and realise too late, and you laugh at yourself for doing it.
But most imortantly she was also reminding me that persistance pays off - she was still guiding me and saying yes you can do it.

You will find that balance it takes time but being here helped me - i hope it can be the same for you.
 

[Emz2014]

  thats the great thing about this site, some of us are further along on the journey and can reach back a hand to help others, sharing things that have helped.  (And there are days we need support too, which is what makes this site so lovely - not alone on this journey here)

It can be so surprising how noticing what may seem little positive things can make such a difference.  And the little elements of self care add up   

[Penelope]

Thanks Karena for sharing some of your journey with me, I am so sorry you have also lost so many. I haven’t been able to talk freely about my dad much at all. He took his life New Year’s Eve, I had spoken to him days before and he had apologised to me about not being that good a dad ( total rubbish he was a very caring father) but he sounded very low on the phone. I even asked him if he was going to be alright. He made me promise to finish college and I got concerned. He then told me not to worry, and that he was just being a silly sentimental fool. That being his first Christmas away from family, he was missing us all. He told my mum he was going to run a bath. But he didn’t. My aunt rang me and told me just after I had let the new year in. My mum had cut him down and tried to resuscitate him. After his body was removed, my mum spent the night and day alone. She was in the middle of nowhere in France and I had to get to her. I was so worried she would end up joining him. It would be a month before he was buried. We had two inquests. One in France and one in the uk. My mum asked me to put photos in his casket at the last minute. By this time, his body was not a pretty site and my last image of my father is rather grim. I had night terrors for a while, then insomnia. When I met my fiancé he was amazing with me. Caring and gentle natured. We were together 8 years. Our son was two weeks old when I went up to ask his daddy if he wanted a cup of tea. Only to find him passed on the bed. I had slept downstairs that night with our son. It was our babies first night home. He had been in NICU critically ill after being born. My fiancé had asked to have a lay in. He had come out of cardiac the day before my son left NICU. He had collapsed the week before. They say he must of gone in the night and been passed at least 5 hours, before I found him. It lives with me that moment, messes with my head. I try and remember the person he was, but I always end back there in that room.

Oddly enough my now oldest friend who I met in college when I was 16, and who has been there picking the pieces up with every grief driven moment. Told me, I must of done something terrible in a former life. I would laugh it off but sometimes I wonder if maybe it’s true. But I like your spin on that theory. It’s a much better one. I do believe it’s a privilege to grow old, and many of us don’t realise that. Too many good people go too soon. I feel I am not living my life enough. I need to appreciate it more. I am desperately trying to. Sadly my friend lives 4 hours away from me these days. I wish we lived near. But I can’t move. My son who has a developmental delay and autism, attends a special school. I dare not disturb him as he is so settled now. We don’t get to do much at weekends or holidays because of his sensory issues and struggles with social interaction. But he is a joy to have and I owe him everything for keeping me focused

It is always so sad to learn how some people feel they must leave this world. I am so sorry about your friend. My dad was a musician and a writer. My mum has recordings of him singing. But I can’t listen coz they just make me cry.
 
Thanks to both of you for your ongoing support and sharing your experience. It helps to know others understand and have got through it. I just want to feel happy again in my own skin

Hugs to both of you 

[Karena]

  you have had such a rough time -its heartbreaking -i think sometimes we look for bigger things to make us happy and dont see them so forget about the smaller ones - a smile from your son - a message from your friend - a bird song -a glimpse of sunshine or a sunset - they are momentray and tiny but when you collect them all up they become bigger - we have he everyday chat thread so believe it or not we can also have normal chat here as well - i thought the laughing emojie was odd for a site like this when i first came here but it does get used more than i imagined - and we will be here as long as you need us to be. 

[Penelope]

Thanks so very much for your warmth  it is a relief to be able to talk freely. I tend to spend my days just going through the motions. You’re so right about the little things. We spend so much time focused on large goals and expectations. We take the little things for granted. My son teaches me every day to look at the world differently. Even thought he can’t communicate verbally, he expresses love and care all the time. I feel so lucky to have him.

Right now it’s almost 2am and I find myself just laying there, not switching off, listening to the silence of the house. It feels so empty at night I find

It’s so great people can talk on here 

[Karena]

  Does you son do signing -one of my grandsons has adhd and is on the lower end of the Autism spectrum - he comunicates verbally now, but when he was very young my daughter found he responded more easilly with signing.

Sleep deprivation is yet another facet of grief and again suddenly finding yourself alone in sole charge of a child is daunting - it was never meant to be like this - i found as my girls were older it was again little things - now if something wasnt done it was my fault if somebody broke in i had to deal with it if there was a fire i alone had to get them out and then the little things -did i lock the door when did i last test the smoke alarms - what happens if ????? and no-one to back me up -you listen to the silence in anticipation waiting for it to be brocken by something thats is going to create a problem or another phone call that is going to be another trauma - its really difficult to not do that.
I found for things like locking the door it helped to have a routine before i went to bed - just simple words -feed (goldfish) stove (shut stove down etc to keep it in) light 9switch off) , lock(door) - see i still remeber it . i still do that in a morning with another set as i leave for work -glasses phone -wallet -keys = then i would set the first of every month to check other things - smoke, carbon, (alarms) bank (balance) bills.(outstanding)
same with vehicle checks  -  OTWWS - oil, Tyres water, wipers, screen (wash) - if you can get a kind of rhythm with the words - and count on your fingers as you say them it becomes a habit - and whilst you can never predict the what ifs -if you imagine when you are wide awake head full of a roundabout of thoughts - the thoughts are a pile of stones that you have to move - if you take just the small ones away because you do those things automatically -so they are the ones you can lift because you can control those , the pile is at least smaller.
I would also get some kind of idea going - i,m going to decorate the living room - and go through the motions of how to do that even though i probably wasnt -but i could obsess over a cushion to the exclusion of things that actually matter if i worked at it. Different things work for different people at different times.
Now i read - i always read under the blanket (with a torch if necessary) when i was a child -so i could always get into the zone of a story -much more than a film - you watch a film for under two hours to the end then its over - you know what happened who did what a rare one might leave you feeling thoughful but generally not for long - but with a book you dont move through the plot  as fast - so you can end up putting it down as your eyes get beyond tired and falling asleep wondering what happens next, or what it was x did - that you didnt understand at the time but now fits in with a mystery - actually i started by re-reading wuthering heights - which i read as a kid too young to fully understand - then because it was my favourite book, the secret garden - last year i bought myself the full set of Narnia ones - ( i do read adult books as well - honest i have a kindle ) but i think if i was analysing it maybe returning to the childhood physical ones brings a feeling of security - the only downside to this, is given a long document to read at work my brain seems to now automatically start to go into sleep mode.

Just so you know going through the motions is not something you should think less of yourself about - its an achievement just to be able to do that - but i think when we get there, then we can get impatient with ourselves - with our grief - and that the next step is too high - and it is so insted of trying to jump up we need to build a few platforms - but you are already standing on the first step not at the bottom with the whole staircase in front of you.
If you badly break your leg there is a period when its an acute problem - maybe an operation weeks bed more weeks in plaster but you have an idea of when it will get better a fairly standard  timescale  which you dont have with grief - with the legs you get loads of sympathy  loads of help  people open doors and make considerations for you when they see the crutches - there is no visible thing they can see with grief - but with both as time goes on the sympathy and the help vanishes - and you get stuck for a while -  the plaster cast starts to itch - the crutches put blisters on your hands - you want to run - but you still stumble and fall over, still get tired even just walking a few yards   -youre suposed to do physio yourself but you cant remember what they said to do exactly and it seems to make no difference anyway - and then you think thats it, i will never be able to go any further - but with the leg there is still that idea of time in your head -there is still the thought that by next year i can do the marathon - but you cant say that with grief there is no x ray to show you are mending despit the setbacks.  Grief is an injury as well though, and you have a load of brocken limbs not just one  - but because it isnt physical there is no plaster cast there is no physio and no-one can see you struggling no-one excuses you because you are convalescing so it is harder -but what you can do is remind yourself that you are healing and be more patient and more kind to yourself during the process.
In reality with the brocken leg you might do that marathon the year after next - but you may not go as fast as you did before - and there will always be a bit of a limp a bit of weakness and an ache everytime it rains -and you accept that as well, but it doesnt stop you trying to finish that marathon -  grief is the same - you will achieve a little bit more a bit at the time, you will fall over you will get frustrated with yourself for continuing to grieve but you can run the marathon eventually and also accept you maybe slower, it will hurt, you will have a limp and an ache that never quite goes away and sometime flares up -( and even then there can be little positives in that - i broke my ankle as a child - i knew left and right foot by knowing the left was the one that aches and has a scar)
but even though you never forget that injury because of those reminders  it will never be like the moment the break happened and of course you may get another break somewhere else, but it wont ever be exactly the same one,  and you cant run that marathon from inside a wall - but its a wall you can take down brick by brick not one you have to smash your way through right now.

[Sandra61]

Hello Penelope,

I am so sorry to hear of all your losses and all the pain they have caused you. It is heart-breaking and I am not at all surprised to hear how much you are struggling with all the pain. 

I know I am coming to this conversation late, but I just wanted to respond to some of the things I notice from your posts.
I do have some experience of losing people to suicide as well as to illness and old age.

What I would say is that whatever the way you lose someone, you can always find something to blame yourself for. We all go through the ‘what ifs’ and ‘if onlys’ – if only I had done this, that would not have happened; if only I had done that, that would not have happened. The truth is that we all do the best we can with the information we have at the time, but things happen the way they do and despite anything we did or didn’t do, it would probably have happened as it did anyway in the end. No one lives forever and the past is the past. We cannot change it, so we have to accept it, learn from it if we can and move forward and find a way to live with it. Self blame is a natural part of grief, but that doesn't mean we should accept it. In fact, I think you actively have to fight against it.

Grief, in my experience, is largely about self help. Those who haven't been through it will never understand until they have. Others just don't know what to say, so hope we will just get over it and everything can 'go back to normal', but it can't because you are living in your own personal new normal and grief has made a different person of you and has made your world different, so there is no return to the old normal. You have to build a new life around the new normal and a new you. Not an easy thing to do when you are at your lowest ebb either. It will take time and determination and strength and all those seem in short supply when you are suffering so.

With suicide, what I have learned is that people are responsible for their own decisions and actions and although some suicide attempts can be a cry for help, others are determined actions that the individual has made up their mind to do and to succeed in and often, in these cases, lots of people have tried to help them, but they have decided to do what they did anyway. In the end, that was their choice and you cannot blame yourself. It is not your fault and to punish yourself, as you have been doing, just makes it worse, because it is likely nothing you could have done would have made any difference. You did the best with the information you had at the time. It was NOT YOUR FAULT.

The other thing I notice from your posts is how strong a person you are. It is clear that you don’t see that in yourself, but you are. Despite all the pain and the grief and the exhaustion, you still want to be there for your son and to make your future with him as happy and positive as possible. You clearly have an enormous amount of strength and a huge capacity to love. Love is a super-power, especially in your circumstances, with all you have had to contend with. Unfortunately, it also means you feel pain to a great degree and you have fallen into the trap of denying love to yourself. You cannot go on being so punishing towards yourself and must cut yourself some slack.

So often we direct all our love towards those around us and forget to direct any of it towards ourselves. So learn to love yourself a little, Penelope. Stop blaming yourself for things. Let go of the past. Start being kind to yourself and forgiving of any failings. No one is perfect and no one does the right thing all the time. We all make mistakes. The important thing is not to keep ‘beating yourself up’ about things. Just learn from your mistakes and from those of others and use those to make the future better. It was not your fault.

You have written a lot in your posts here about what happened, but what I found helped me was to write down privately what happened and how I felt about it all and any thoughts I have about it, acknowledging any failings I felt I had at that time. That helped me understand all those feelings, get them out of my system and understand it all better and accept it all. Once you have done that, I think you can begin to heal.

You can’t change the past, so you have to accept it. What you can do is put it behind you and accept that your questions will never be answered, but learn from it all and use it to make your future and those of the people you still have with you better.

Let go of the guilt, Penelope. What happened happened and you can’t change it. You can’t explain it either. All you can do is respect the decisions of those you have lost and put it behind you and use it to make your future better. Reurrect the good memories you have of those you have lost; the good times they had. Don't just think about the end of their lives. That was only a small part of it. It wan't all bad. To end it for whatever reason, was their choice. You have to accept that. You can't change it and probably could not have done when they were still here. Someone determined to end their life can be very secretive about it and will do their best to hide how they feel from others because they don't want to upset them and don't feel telling anyone will help. It is not your fault you did not see what was coming or could not prevent it.

It is not true that you have deserved this either. Who knows if anyone has ever had a former life or will ever be reincarnated? You are just adding to your own pile of blame unnecessarily. Please don't succumb to such thoughts. The acts of others are about them, not about you. They were not thinking of you in deciding to do what they did or they would not have done it.

Stop blaming yourself. Start loving yourself. Concentrate on the things that make you feel better. Write down the good things that happen to you each day. Allow yourself to heal. You can’t change the past, but you can make the future what ever you want it to be. Be positive and let go of the negative view you have of yourself. Start being kind to yourself. Acknowledge your strengths and your good qualities. You are actually an optimistic person and someone who looks for the good in life. Encourage that side of yourself, Penelope. Please stop beating yourself up.

Wishing you well.